The cause of designating as a Sentient being.
English translation by Bhikkhu Sujato
“Sir, they speak of this thing called a ‘sentient being’. How do we define a sentient being or what is known as a sentient being?” …
English translation by Bhikkhu Bodhi
“Venerable sir, it is said, ‘a being, a being.’ In what way, venerable sir, might there be a being or the description of a being?”
The reply is as in the preceding sutta.
English translation by Bhikkhu Sujato
At Sāvatthī.
Seated to one side, Venerable Rādha said to the Buddha:
“Sir, they speak of this thing called a ‘sentient being’. How is a sentient being defined?”
“Rādha, when you cling, strongly cling, to desire, greed, relishing, and craving for form, then a being is spoken of. When you cling, strongly cling, to desire, greed, relishing, and craving for feeling … perception … choices … consciousness, then a being is spoken of.
Suppose some boys or girls were playing with sandcastles. As long as they’re not rid of greed, desire, fondness, thirst, passion, and craving for those sandcastles, they cherish them, fancy them, treasure them, and treat them as their own. But when they are rid of greed, desire, fondness, thirst, passion, and craving for those sandcastles, they scatter, destroy, and demolish them with their hands and feet, making them unplayable.
In the same way, you should scatter, destroy, and demolish form, making it unplayable. And you should practice for the ending of craving. You should scatter, destroy, and demolish feeling … perception … choices … consciousness, making it unplayable. And you should practice for the ending of craving. For the ending of craving is extinguishment.”
English translation by Bhikkhu Sujato
At Sāvatthī.
Then Venerable Kaccānagotta went up to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to him:
“Sir, they speak of this thing called ‘right view’. How is right view defined?”
“Kaccāna, this world mostly relies on the dual notions of existence and non-existence.
But when you truly see the origin of the world with right understanding, you won’t have the notion of non-existence regarding the world. And when you truly see the cessation of the world with right understanding, you won’t have the notion of existence regarding the world.
The world is for the most part shackled by attraction, grasping, and insisting.
But if—when it comes to this attraction, grasping, mental fixation, insistence, and underlying tendency—you don’t get attracted, grasp, and commit to the notion ‘my self’, you’ll have no doubt or uncertainty that what arises is just suffering arising, and what ceases is just suffering ceasing. Your knowledge about this is independent of others.
This is how right view is defined.
‘All exists’: this is one extreme.
‘All does not exist’: this is the second extreme.
Avoiding these two extremes, the Realized One teaches by the middle way:
‘Ignorance is a condition for choices. Choices are a condition for consciousness. … That is how this entire mass of suffering originates.
When ignorance fades away and ceases with nothing left over, choices cease. When choices cease, consciousness ceases. … That is how this entire mass of suffering ceases.’”
English translation by Bhikkhu Bodhi
At Savatthī. Then the Venerable Kaccanagotta approached the Blessed One, paid homage to him, sat down to one side, and said to him: “Venerable sir, it is said, ‘right view, right view.’ In what way, venerable sir, is there right view?”
“This world, Kaccana, for the most part depends upon a duality—upon the notion of existence and the notion of nonexistence. But for one who sees the origin of the world as it really is with correct wisdom, there is no notion of nonexistence in regard to the world. And for one who sees the cessation of the world as it really is with correct wisdom, there is no notion of existence in regard to the world.
“This world, Kaccana, is for the most part shackled by engagement, clinging, and adherence. But this one with right view does not become engaged and cling through that engagement and clinging, mental standpoint, adherence, underlying tendency; he does not take a stand about ‘my self.’ He has no perplexity or doubt that what arises is only suffering arising, what ceases is only suffering ceasing. His knowledge about this is independent of others. It is in this way, Kaccana, that there is right view. “‘All exists’: Kaccana, this is one extreme. ‘All does not exist’: this is the second extreme. Without veering towards either of these extremes, the Tathagata teaches the Dhamma by the middle: ‘With ignorance as condition, volitional formations come to be; with volitional formations as condition, consciousness…. Such is the origin of this whole mass of suffering. But with the remainderless fading away and cessation of ignorance comes cessation of volitional formations; with the cessation of volitional formations, cessation of consciousness…. Such is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering.”
English translation by Suddhāso Bhikkhu
At Sāvatthi. Then Venerable Kaccānagotta approached the Blessed One, paid respects to him, and sat down to one side. When he was seated to one side, Venerable Kaccānagotta said to the Blessed One, “Bhante, it is said ‘Right perspective, right perspective.’ Bhante, how is there right perspective?”
“Kaccāna, for the most part this world is based upon a duality – existence and non-existence. Kaccāna, one who accurately sees with right wisdom the arising of the world does not have the thought of non-existence. Kaccāna, one who accurately sees with right wisdom the cessation of the world does not have the thought of existence.
“Kaccāna, for the most part this world is bound by procurement, clinging, and adherence1. And as regards that procurement and clinging by the mind, that resolution and tendency towards adherence: when one does not procure, does not cling to, and does not resolve upon thoughts of ‘My soul’2; when one has no doubt about, no uncertainty of, and no dependence on another for the knowledge that ‘It is only suffering that arises, and only suffering that ceases’ – this, Kaccāna, is ‘Right perspective.’
“‘Everything exists’: Kaccāna, this is one extreme. ‘Nothing exists’: this is the second extreme. Kaccāna, without approaching either of these two extremes, the Tathāgata teaches Dhamma by the middle:
“Due to ignorance there are conditional formations. Due to conditional formations there is consciousness. Due to consciousness there is mind and body. Due to mind and body there are the six senses. Due to the six senses there is sense-contact. Due to sense-contact there is feeling. Due to feeling there is craving. Due to craving there is clinging. Due to clinging there is existence. Due to existence there is birth. Due to birth there is old age and dieing; sorrow, lamentation, pain, depression, and anguish are produced. In this way there is the arising of this entire mass of suffering.
“However, when there is complete detachment from and cessation of ignorance, there is the cessation of conditional formations. From the cessation of conditional formations there is the cessation of consciousness. From the cessation of consciousness there is the cessation of mind and body. From the cessation of mind and body there is the cessation of the six senses. From the cessation of the six senses there is the cessation of sense-contact. From the cessation of sense-contact there is the cessation of feeling. From the cessation of feeling there is the cessation of craving. From the cessation of craving there is the cessation of clinging. From the cessation of clinging there is the cessation of existence. From the cessation of existence there is the cessation of birth. From the cessation of birth, old age, dieing, sorrow, lamentation, pain, depression, and anguish cease. In this way there is the cessation of this entire mass of suffering.”
English translation by Bhikkhu Sujato
At Sāvatthī.
“Mendicants, there are these four fuels. They maintain sentient beings that have been born and help those that are about to be born. What four? Solid food, whether coarse or fine; contact is the second, mental intention the third, and consciousness the fourth. These are the four fuels that maintain sentient beings that have been born and help those that are about to be born.”
When he said this, Venerable Phagguna of the Top-Knot said to the Buddha, “But sir, who consumes the fuel for consciousness?”
“That’s not a fitting question,” said the Buddha.
“I don’t speak of one who consumes. If I were to speak of one who consumes, then it would be fitting to ask who consumes. But I don’t speak like that. Hence it would be fitting to ask: ‘Consciousness is a fuel for what?’ And a fitting answer to this would be: ‘Consciousness is a fuel that conditions rebirth into a new state of existence in the future. When that which has been reborn is present, there are the six sense fields. The six sense fields are a condition for contact.’”
“But sir, who contacts?”
“That’s not a fitting question,” said the Buddha.
“I don’t speak of one who contacts. If I were to speak of one who contacts, then it would be fitting to ask who contacts. But I don’t speak like that. Hence it would be fitting to ask: ‘What is a condition for contact?’ And a fitting answer to this would be: ‘The six sense fields are a condition for contact. Contact is a condition for feeling.’”
“But sir, who feels?”
“That’s not a fitting question,” said the Buddha.
“I don’t speak of one who feels. If I were to speak of one who feels, then it would be fitting to ask who feels. But I don’t speak like that. Hence it would be fitting to ask: ‘What is a condition for feeling?’ And a fitting answer to this would be: ‘Contact is a condition for feeling. Feeling is a condition for craving.’”
“But sir, who craves?”
“That’s not a fitting question,” said the Buddha.
“I don’t speak of one who craves. If I were to speak of one who craves, then it would be fitting to ask who craves. But I don’t speak like that. Hence it would be fitting to ask: ‘What is a condition for craving?’ And a fitting answer to this would be: ‘Feeling is a condition for craving. Craving is a condition for grasping.’”
“But sir, who grasps?”
“That’s not a fitting question,” said the Buddha.
“I don’t speak of one who grasps. If I were to speak of one who grasps, then it would be fitting to ask who grasps. But I don’t speak like that. Hence it would be fitting to ask: ‘What is a condition for grasping?’ And a fitting answer to this would be: ‘Craving is a condition for grasping. Grasping is a condition for continued existence.’ … That is how this entire mass of suffering originates.
When the six fields of contact fade away and cease with nothing left over, contact ceases. When contact ceases, feeling ceases. When feeling ceases, craving ceases. When craving ceases, grasping ceases. When grasping ceases, continued existence ceases. When continued existence ceases, rebirth ceases. When rebirth ceases, old age and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress cease. That is how this entire mass of suffering ceases.”
English translation by Bhikkhu Bodhi
At Savatthī. “Bhikkhus, there are these four kinds of nutriment for the maintenance of beings that have already come to be and for the assistance of those about to come to be. What four? The nutriment edible food, gross or subtle; second, contact; third, mental volition; fourth, consciousness. These are the four kinds of nutriment for the maintenance of beings that have already come to be and for the assistance of those about to come to be.”
When this was said, the Venerable Moḷiyaphagguna said to the Blessed One: “Venerable sir, who consumes the nutriment consciousness?”
“Not a valid question,” the Blessed One replied. “I do not say, ‘One consumes.’ If I should say, ‘One consumes,’ in that case this would be a valid question: ‘Venerable sir, who consumes?’ But I do not speak thus. Since I do not speak thus, if one should ask me, ‘Venerable sir, for what is the nutriment consciousness a condition?’ this would be a valid question. To this the valid answer is: ‘The nutriment consciousness is a condition for the production of future renewed existence. When that which has come into being exists, the six sense bases come to be; with the six sense bases as condition, contact.’”
“Venerable sir, who makes contact?”
“Not a valid question,” the Blessed One replied. “I do not say, ‘One makes contact.’ If I should say, ‘One makes contact,’ in that case this would be a valid question: ‘Venerable sir, who makes contact?’ But I do not speak thus. Since I do not speak thus, if one should ask me, ‘Venerable sir, with what as condition does contact come to be?’ this would be a valid question. To this the valid answer is: ‘With the six sense bases as condition, contact comes to be; with contact as condition, feeling.’”
“Venerable sir, who feels?”
“Not a valid question,” the Blessed One replied. “I do not say, ‘One feels.’ If I should say, ‘One feels,’ in that case this would be a valid question: ‘Venerable sir, who feels?’ But I do not speak thus. Since I do not speak thus, if one should ask me, ‘Venerable sir, with what as condition does feeling come to be?’ this would be a valid question. To this the valid answer is: ‘With contact as condition, feeling comes to be; with feeling as condition, craving.’”
“Venerable sir, who craves?”
“Not a valid question,” the Blessed One replied. “I do not say, ‘One craves.’ If I should say, ‘One craves,’ in that case this would be a valid question: ‘Venerable sir, who craves?’ But I do not speak thus. Since I do not speak thus, if one should ask me, ‘Venerable sir, with what as condition does craving come to be?’ this would be a valid question. To this the valid answer is: ‘With feeling as condition, craving comes to be; with craving as condition, clinging; with clinging as condition, existence…. Such is the origin of this whole mass of suffering.’
“But, Phagguna, with the remainderless fading away and cessation of the six bases for contact comes cessation of contact; with the cessation of contact, cessation of feeling; with the cessation of feeling, cessation of craving; with the cessation of craving, cessation of clinging; with the cessation of clinging, cessation of existence; with the cessation of existence, cessation of birth; with the cessation of birth, aging-and-death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair cease. Such is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering.”
English translation by Suddhāso Bhikkhu
At Sāvatthi. “Monks, these are the four kinds of food1, which maintain beings that have come into existence and support those who are seeking existence. What four? Edible food, whether coarse or subtle; sense-contact is the second; mental volition is the third; consciousness is the fourth. Monks, these are the four kinds of food which maintain beings that have come into existence and support those who are seeking existence.”
When this was said, Venerable Moḷiyaphagguna said to the Blessed One, “Bhante, who feeds on consciousness-food?”
“That is not a valid question,” the Blessed One said. “I do not say ‘One feeds.’ If I said, ‘One feeds,’ then this would be a valid question: ‘Bhante, who feeds on consciousness-food?’ But I do not say that. Since I do not say that, if someone asked, ‘Bhante, what is consciousness food for?’ then that would be a valid question. And the proper explanation would be, ‘Consciousness is the food based on which there is the production of further existence in the future; and when that has come to be, then there are the six senses; and based on the six senses there is sense-contact.’”
“Bhante, who contacts?”
“That is not a valid question,” the Blessed One said. “I do not say ‘One contacts.’ If I said, ‘One contacts,’ then this would be a valid question: ‘Bhante, who contacts?’ But I do not say that. Since I do not say that, if someone asked, ‘Bhante, what is the condition for sense-contact?’ then that would be a valid question. And the proper explanation would be, ‘Based on the six senses there is sense-contact, and based on sense-contact there are feelings.’”
“Bhante, who feels?”
“That is not a valid question,” the Blessed One said. “I do not say ‘One feels.’ If I said, ‘One feels,’ then this would be a valid question: ‘Bhante, who feels?’ But I do not say that. Since I do not say that, if someone asked, ‘Bhante, what is the condition for feeling?’ then that would be a valid question. And the proper explanation would be, ‘Based on sense-contact there are feelings, and based on feelings there is craving.’”
“Bhante, who craves?”
“That is not a valid question,” the Blessed One said. “I do not say ‘One craves.’ If I said, ‘One craves,’ then this would be a valid question: ‘Bhante, who craves?’ But I do not say that. Since I do not say that, if someone asked, ‘Bhante, what is the condition for craving?’ then that would be a valid question. And the proper explanation would be, ‘Based on feeling there is craving, and based on craving there is grasping.”
“Bhante, who grasps?”
“That is not a valid question,” the Blessed One said. “I do not say ‘One grasps.’ If I said, ‘One grasps,’ then this would be a valid question: ‘Bhante, who grasps?’ But I do not say that. Since I do not say that, if someone asked, ‘Bhante, what is the condition for grasping?’ then that would be a valid question. And the proper explanation would be, ‘Based on craving there is grasping, and based on grasping there is existence.’2 …this is how the entire mass of suffering arises.
“However, Phagguna, when through dispassion the six senses completely cease, then sense-contact ceases; when sense-contact ceases, feeling ceases; when feeling ceases, craving ceases; when craving ceases, grasping ceases; when grasping ceases, existence ceases; when existence ceases, birth ceases; when birth ceases, decay, dying, sorrow, lamentation, pain, depression, and anguish cease. This is how the entire mass of suffering ceases.”
English translation by Bhikkhu Sujato
At Sāvatthī.
“Ignorance is a condition for choices.
Choices are a condition for consciousness. … That is how this entire mass of suffering originates.”
When this was said, one of the mendicants asked the Buddha, “What are old age and death, sir, and who do they belong to?”
“That’s not a fitting question,” said the Buddha. “You might say, ‘What are old age and death, and who do they belong to?’ Or you might say, ‘Old age and death are one thing, who they belong to is another.’ But both of these mean the same thing, only the phrasing differs. Mendicant, if you have the view that the soul and the body are the same thing, there is no living of the spiritual life. If you have the view that the soul and the body are different things, there is no living of the spiritual life. Avoiding these two extremes, the Realized One teaches by the middle way: ‘Rebirth is a condition for old age and death.’”
“What is rebirth, sir, and who does it belong to?”
“That’s not a fitting question,” said the Buddha. “You might say, ‘What is rebirth, and who does it belong to?’ Or you might say, ‘Rebirth is one thing, who it belongs to is another.’ But both of these mean the same thing, only the phrasing differs. Mendicant, if you have the view that the soul and the body are the same thing, there is no living of the spiritual life. If you have the view that the soul and the body are different things, there is no living of the spiritual life. Avoiding these two extremes, the Realized One teaches by the middle way: ‘Continued existence is a condition for rebirth.’”
“What is continued existence, sir, and who is it for?”
“That’s not a fitting question,” said the Buddha. “You might say, ‘What is continued existence, and who does it belong to?’ Or you might say, ‘Continued existence is one thing, who it belongs to is another.’ But both of these mean the same thing, only the phrasing differs. Mendicant, if you have the view that the soul and the body are identical, there is no living of the spiritual life. If you have the view that the soul and the body are different things, there is no living of the spiritual life. Avoiding these two extremes, the Realized One teaches by the middle way: ‘Grasping is a condition for continued existence.’ … ‘Craving is a condition for grasping.’ … ‘Feeling is a condition for craving.’ … ‘Contact is a condition for feeling.’ … ‘The six sense fields are conditions for contact.’ … ‘Name and form are conditions for the six sense fields.’ … ‘Consciousness is a condition for name and form.’ … ‘Choices are a condition for consciousness.’”
“What are choices, sir, and who do they belong to?”
“That’s not a fitting question,” said the Buddha. “You might say, ‘What are choices, and who do they belong to?’ Or you might say, ‘Choices are one thing, who they belong to is another.’ But both of these mean the same thing, only the phrasing differs. Mendicant, if you have the view that the soul and the body are the same thing, there is no living of the spiritual life. If you have the view that the soul and the body are different things, there is no living of the spiritual life. Avoiding these two extremes, the Realized One teaches by the middle way: ‘Ignorance is a condition for choices.’
When ignorance fades away and ceases with nothing left over, then any tricks, dodges, and evasions are given up: ‘What are old age and death, and who do they belong to?’ or ‘old age and death are one thing, who they belong to is another’, or ‘the soul and the body are the same thing’, or ‘the soul and the body are different things.’ These are all cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated, and unable to arise in the future.
When ignorance fades away and ceases with nothing left over, then any tricks, dodges, and evasions are given up: ‘What is rebirth, and who does it belong to?’ or ‘rebirth is one thing, who it belongs to is another’, or ‘the soul and the body are the same thing’, or ‘the soul and the body are different things.’ These are all cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated, and unable to arise in the future.
When ignorance fades away and ceases with nothing left over, then any tricks, dodges, and evasions are given up: ‘What is continued existence …’ ‘What is grasping …’ ‘What is craving …’ ‘What is feeling …’ ‘What is contact …’ ‘What are the six sense fields …’ ‘What are name and form …’ ‘What is consciousness …’
When ignorance fades away and ceases with nothing left over, then any tricks, dodges, and evasions are given up: ‘What are choices, and who do they belong to?’ or ‘choices are one thing, who they belong to is another’, or ‘the soul and the body are the same thing’, or ‘the soul and the body are different things.’ These are all cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated, and unable to arise in the future.”
English translation by Bhikkhu Bodhi
At Savatthī. “Bhikkhus, with ignorance as condition, volitional formations come to be; with volitional formations as condition, consciousness…. Such is the origin of this whole mass of suffering.”
When he had said this, a certain bhikkhu said to the Blessed One: “Venerable sir, what now is aging-and-death, and for whom is there this aging-and-death?”
“Not a valid question,” the Blessed One replied. “Bhikkhu, whether one says, ‘What now is aging-and-death, and for whom is there this aging-and-death?’ or whether one says, ‘Aging-and-death is one thing, the one for whom there is this aging-and-death is another’—both these assertions are identical in meaning; they differ only in the phrasing. If there is the view, ‘The soul and the body are the same,’ there is no living of the holy life; and if there is the view, ‘The soul is one thing, the body is another,’ there is no living of the holy life. Without veering towards either of these extremes, the Tathagata teaches the Dhamma by the middle: ‘With birth as condition, aging-and-death. ’”
“Venerable sir, what now is birth, and for whom is there this birth?”
“Not a valid question,” the Blessed One replied. “Bhikkhu, whether one says, ‘What now is birth, and for whom is there this birth?’ or whether one says, ‘Birth is one thing, the one for whom there is this birth is another’—both these assertions are identical in meaning; they differ only in the phrasing…. Without veering towards either of these extremes, the Tathagata teaches the Dhamma by the middle: ‘With existence as condition, birth.’”
“Venerable sir, what now is existence, and for whom is there this existence?”
“Not a valid question,” the Blessed One replied. “Bhikkhu, whether one says, ‘What now is existence, and for whom is there this existence?’ or whether one says, ‘Existence is one thing, the one for whom there is this existence is another’—both these assertions are identical in meaning; they differ only in the phrasing…. Without veering towards either of these extremes, the Tathagata teaches the Dhamma by the middle: ‘With clinging as condition, existence…. With craving as condition, clinging…. With feeling as condition, craving…. With contact as condition, feeling…. With the six sense bases as condition, contact…. With name-and-form as condition, the six sense bases…. With consciousness as condition, name-and-form…. With volitional formations as condition, consciousness.’”
“Venerable sir, what now are volitional formations, and for whom are there these volitional formations?”
“Not a valid question,” the Blessed One replied. “Bhikkhu, whether one says, ‘What now are volitional formations, and for whom are there these volitional formations?’ or whether one says, ‘Volitional formations are one thing, the one for whom there are these volitional formations is another’—both these assertions are identical in meaning; they differ only in the phrasing. If there is the view, ‘The soul and the body are the same,’ there is no living of the holy life; and if there is the view, ‘The soul is one thing, the body is another,’ there is no living of the holy life. Without veering towards either of these extremes, the Tathagata teaches the Dhamma by the middle: ‘With ignorance as condition, volitional formations.’
“But with the remainderless fading away and cessation of ignorance, whatever kinds of contortions, manoeuvres, and vacillations there may be—‘What now is aging-and-death, and for whom is there this aging-and-death?’ or ‘Aging-and-death is one thing, the one for whom there is this aging-and-death is another,’ or ‘The soul and the body are the same,’ or ‘The soul is one thing, the body is another’—all these are abandoned, cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated so that they are no more subject to future arising.
“With the remainderless fading away and cessation of ignorance, whatever kinds of contortions, manoeuvres, and vacillations there may be—‘What now is birth, and for whom is there this birth?’… … ‘What now are volitional formations, and for whom are there these volitional formations?’ or ‘Volitional formations are one thing, the one for whom there are these volitional formations is another,’ or ‘The soul and the body are the same,’ or ‘The soul is one thing, the body is another’—all these are abandoned, cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated so that they are no more subject to future arising.”
English translation by Bhikkhu Sujato
At Sāvatthī.
“Mendicants, whatever ascetics and brahmins regard various kinds of things as self, all regard the five grasping aggregates, or one of them.
What five? It’s when an unlearned ordinary person has not seen the noble ones, and is neither skilled nor trained in the teaching of the noble ones. They’ve not seen good persons, and are neither skilled nor trained in the teaching of the good persons.
They regard form as self, self as having form, form in self, or self in form. They regard feeling … perception … choices … consciousness as self, self as having consciousness, consciousness in self, or self in consciousness.
So they’re not rid of this way of regarding things and the conceit ‘I am’. As long as they’re not rid of the conceit ‘I am’, the five faculties are conceived—the eye, ear, nose, tongue, and body. The mind, thoughts, and the element of ignorance are all present. Struck by feelings born of contact with ignorance, an unlearned ordinary person thinks ‘I am’, ‘I am this’, ‘I will be’, ‘I will not be’, ‘I will have form’, ‘I will be formless’, ‘I will be percipient’, ‘I will not be percipient’, ‘I will be neither percipient nor non-percipient’.
The five faculties stay right where they are. But a learned noble disciple gives up ignorance about them and gives rise to knowledge. With the fading away of ignorance and the arising of knowledge, they don’t think ‘I am’, ‘I am this’, ‘I will be’, ‘I will not be’, ‘I will have form’, ‘I will be formless’, ‘I will be percipient’, ‘I will be non-percipient’, ‘I will be neither percipient nor non-percipient’.”
English translation by Bhikkhu Bodhi
At Savatthi. “Bhikkhus, those ascetics and brahmins who regard anything as self in various ways all regard as self the five aggregates subject to clinging, or a certain one among them. What five?
“Here, bhikkhus, the uninstructed worldling, who is not a seer of the noble ones and is unskilled and undisciplined in their Dhamma, who is not a seer of superior persons and is unskilled and undisciplined in their Dhamma, regards form as self, or self as possessing form, or form as in self, or self as in form. He regards feeling as self … perception as self … volitional formations as self … consciousness as self, or self as possessing consciousness, or consciousness as in self, or self as in consciousness.
“Thus this way of regarding things and the notion ‘I am’ have not vanished in him. As ‘I am’ has not vanished, there takes place a descent of the five faculties—of the eye faculty, the ear faculty, the nose faculty, the tongue faculty, the body faculty. There is, bhikkhus, the mind, there are mental phenomena, there is the element of ignorance. When the uninstructed worldling is contacted by a feeling born of ignorance-contact, ‘I am’ occurs to him; ‘I am this’ occurs to him; ‘I will be’ and ‘I will not be,’ and ‘I will consist of form’ and ‘I will be formless,’ and ‘I will be percipient’ and ‘I will be nonpercipient’ and ‘I will be neither percipient nor nonpercipient’—these occur to him.
“The five faculties remain right there, bhikkhus, but in regard to them the instructed noble disciple abandons ignorance and arouses true knowledge. With the fading away of ignorance and the arising of true knowledge, ‘I am’ does not occur to him; ‘I am this’ does not occur to him; ‘I will be’ and ‘I will not be,’ and ‘I will consist of form’ and ‘I will be formless,’ and ‘I will be percipient’ and ‘I will be nonpercipient’ and ‘I will be neither percipient nor nonpercipient’—these do not occur to him.”
English translation by Bhikkhu Sujato
… “But Master Gotama, when a mendicant’s mind is freed like this, where are they reborn?”
“‘They’re reborn’ doesn’t apply, Vaccha.”
“Well then, are they not reborn?”
“‘They’re not reborn’ doesn’t apply, Vaccha.”
“Well then, are they both reborn and not reborn?”
“‘They’re both reborn and not reborn’ doesn’t apply, Vaccha.”
“Well then, are they neither reborn nor not reborn?”
“‘They’re neither reborn nor not reborn’ doesn’t apply, Vaccha.”
“Master Gotama, when asked all these questions, you say: ‘It doesn’t apply.’ I fail to understand this point, Master Gotama; I’ve fallen into confusion. And I’ve now lost even the degree of clarity I had from previous discussions with Master Gotama.”
“No wonder you don’t understand, Vaccha, no wonder you’re confused. For this principle is deep, hard to see, hard to understand, peaceful, sublime, beyond the scope of logic, subtle, comprehensible to the astute. It’s hard for you to understand, since you have a different view, creed, and preference, unless you dedicate yourself to practice with the guidance of tradition.
Well then, Vaccha, I’ll ask you about this in return, and you can answer as you like.
What do you think, Vaccha? Suppose a fire was burning in front of you. Would you know: ‘This fire is burning in front of me’?”
“Yes, I would, Master Gotama.”
“But Vaccha, suppose they were to ask you: ‘This fire burning in front of you: what does it depend on to burn?’ How would you answer?”
“I would answer like this: ‘This fire burning in front of me burns in dependence on grass and logs as fuel.’”
“Suppose that fire burning in front of you was extinguished. Would you know: ‘This fire in front of me is extinguished’?”
“Yes, I would, Master Gotama.”
“But Vaccha, suppose they were to ask you: ‘This fire in front of you that is extinguished: in what direction did it go—east, south, west, or north?’ How would you answer?”
“It doesn’t apply, Master Gotama. The fire depended on grass and logs as fuel. When that runs out, and no more fuel is added, the fire is reckoned to have become extinguished due to lack of fuel.”
“In the same way, Vaccha, any form by which a Realized One might be described has been cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated, and unable to arise in the future. A Realized One is freed from reckoning in terms of form. They’re deep, immeasurable, and hard to fathom, like the ocean. ‘They’re reborn’, ‘they’re not reborn’, ‘they’re both reborn and not reborn’, ‘they’re neither reborn nor not reborn’—none of these apply.
Any feeling … perception … choices … consciousness by which a Realized One might be described has been cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated, and unable to arise in the future. A Realized One is freed from reckoning in terms of consciousness. They’re deep, immeasurable, and hard to fathom, like the ocean. ‘They’re reborn’, ‘they’re not reborn’, ‘they’re both reborn and not reborn’, ‘they’re neither reborn nor not reborn’—none of these apply.
When he said this, the wanderer Vacchagotta said to the Buddha:
“Master Gotama, suppose there was a large sal tree not far from a town or village. And because it’s impermanent, its branches and foliage, bark and shoots, and softwood would fall off. After some time it would be rid of branches and foliage, bark and shoots, and softwood, consisting purely of heartwood. In the same way, Master Gotama’s dispensation is rid of branches and foliage, bark and shoots, and softwood, consisting purely of heartwood.
Excellent, Master Gotama! … From this day forth, may Master Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.”
English translation by Thanissaro Bhikkhu
… “But, Master Gotama, the monk whose mind is thus released: Where does he reappear?”
“‘Reappear,’ Vaccha, doesn’t apply.”
“In that case, Master Gotama, he does not reappear.”
“‘Does not reappear,’ Vaccha, doesn’t apply.”
“…both does & does not reappear.”
“…doesn’t apply.”
“…neither does nor does not reappear.”
“…doesn’t apply.”
“How is it, Master Gotama, when Master Gotama is asked if the monk reappears… does not reappear… both does & does not reappear… neither does nor does not reappear, he says, ‘…doesn’t apply’ in each case. At this point, Master Gotama, I am befuddled; at this point, confused. The modicum of clarity coming to me from your earlier conversation is now obscured.”
“Of course you’re befuddled, Vaccha. Of course you’re confused. Deep, Vaccha, is this phenomenon, hard to see, hard to realize, tranquil, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise. For those with other views, other practices, other satisfactions, other aims, other teachers, it is difficult to know. That being the case, I will now put some questions to you. Answer as you see fit. What do you think, Vaccha: If a fire were burning in front of you, would you know that, ‘This fire is burning in front of me’?”
“…yes…”
“And suppose someone were to ask you, Vaccha, ‘This fire burning in front of you, dependent on what is it burning?’ Thus asked, how would you reply?”
“…I would reply, ‘This fire burning in front of me is burning dependent on grass & timber as its sustenance.’”
“If the fire burning in front of you were to go out, would you know that, ‘This fire burning in front of me has gone out’?”
“…yes…”
“And suppose someone were to ask you, ‘This fire that has gone out in front of you, in which direction from here has it gone? East? West? North? Or south?’ Thus asked, how would you reply?”
“That doesn’t apply, Master Gotama. Any fire burning dependent on a sustenance of grass and timber, being unnourished—from having consumed that sustenance and not being offered any other—is classified simply as ‘out’.”
“Even so, Vaccha, any physical form by which one describing the Tathagata would describe him: That the Tathagata has abandoned, its root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising. Freed from the classification of form, Vaccha, the Tathagata is deep, boundless, hard to fathom, like the sea. ‘Reappears’ doesn’t apply. ‘Does not reappear’ doesn’t apply. ‘Both does & does not reappear’ doesn’t apply. ‘Neither reappears nor does not reappear’ doesn’t apply.
“Any feeling… Any perception… Any fabrication…
“Any consciousness by which one describing the Tathagata would describe him: That the Tathagata has abandoned, its root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising. Freed from the classification of consciousness, Vaccha, the Tathagata is deep, boundless, hard to fathom, like the sea. ‘Reappears’ doesn’t apply. ‘Does not reappear’ doesn’t apply. ‘Both does & does not reappear’ doesn’t apply. ‘Neither reappears nor does not reappear’ doesn’t apply.”
When this was said, the wanderer Vacchagotta said to the Blessed One: “Master Gotama, it is as if there were a great sala tree not far from a village or town: From inconstancy, its branches and leaves would wear away, its bark would wear away, its sapwood would wear away, so that on a later occasion—divested of branches, leaves, bark, & sapwood—it would stand as pure heartwood. In the same way, Master Gotama’s words are divested of branches, leaves, bark, & sapwood and stand as pure heartwood.
“Magnificent, Master Gotama! Magnificent! Just as if he were to place upright what was overturned, to reveal what was hidden, to show the way to one who was lost, or were to carry a lamp into the dark so that those with eyes could see forms, in the same way has Master Gotama—through many lines of reasoning—made the Dhamma clear. I go to Master Gotama for refuge, to the Dhamma, and to the Sangha of monks. May Master Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone to him for refuge, from this day forward, for life.”
English translation by Bhikkhu Sujato
Then the wanderer Vacchagotta went up to the Buddha and exchanged greetings with him. When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side, and said to the Buddha:
“Master Gotama, a few days ago several ascetics, brahmins, and wanderers who follow various other religions were sitting together in the debating hall, and this discussion came up among them: ‘This Pūraṇa Kassapa leads an order and a community, and teaches a community. He’s a well-known and famous religious founder, deemed holy by many people. When a disciple passes away, he declares that this one is reborn here, while that one is reborn there. And as for a disciple who is a supreme person, highest of people, having reached the highest point, when they pass away he also declares that this one is reborn here, while that one is reborn there.
This Makkhali Gosāla … the Jain ascetic of the Ñātika clan … Sañjaya Belaṭṭhiputta … Pakudha Kaccāyana … Ajita of the hair blanket leads an order and a community, and teaches a community. He’s a well-known and famous religious founder, deemed holy by many people. When a disciple passes away, he declares that this one is reborn here, while that one is reborn there. And as for a disciple who is a supreme person, highest of people, having reached the highest point, when they pass away he also declares that this one is reborn here, while that one is reborn there.
This ascetic Gotama leads an order and a community, and teaches a community. He’s a well-known and famous religious founder, deemed holy by many people. When a disciple passes away, he declares that this one is reborn here, while that one is reborn there.
But as for a disciple who is a supreme person, highest of people, having reached the highest point, when they pass away he doesn’t declare that this one is reborn here, while that one is reborn there. Rather, he declares that they have cut off craving, untied the fetters, and by rightly comprehending conceit have made an end of suffering.’ I had doubt and uncertainty about that: ‘How on earth can I understand the ascetic Gotama’s teaching?’”
“Vaccha, no wonder you’re doubting and uncertain. Doubt has come up in you about an uncertain matter.
I describe rebirth for someone who grasps fuel, not for someone who doesn’t grasp fuel. It’s like a fire which only burns with fuel, not without fuel. In the same way I describe rebirth for someone who grasps fuel, not for someone who doesn’t grasp fuel.”
“But when a flame is blown away by the wind, what does Master Gotama say is its fuel then?”
“At such a time, I say that it’s fueled by wind. For the wind is its fuel then.”
“But when someone who is attached has laid down this body and has not been reborn in one of the realms, what does Master Gotama say is their fuel then?”
“When someone who is attached has laid down this body, Vaccha, and has not been reborn in one of the realms, I say they’re fueled by craving. For craving is their fuel then.”
https://suttacentral.net/sn44.9/en/sujato
English translation by Bhikkhu Bodhi
Then the wanderer Vacchagotta approached the Blessed One and exchanged greetings with him. When they had concluded their greetings and cordial talk, he sat down to one side and said to the Blessed One:
“In recent days, Master Gotama, a number of ascetics, brahmins, and wanderers of various sects had assembled in the debating hall and were sitting together when this conversation arose among them: ‘This Pūraṇa Kassapa—the leader of an order, the leader of a group, the teacher of a group, the well known and famous spiritual guide considered holy by many people—declares the rebirth of a disciple who has passed away and died thus: “That one was reborn there, that one was reborn there.” And in the case of a disciple who was a person of the highest kind, a supreme person, one who had attained the supreme attainment, when that disciple has passed away and died he also declares his rebirth thus: “That one was reborn there, that one was reborn there.” This Makkhali Gosala … This Nigaṇṭha Nātaputta … This Sañjaya Belaṭṭhiputta … This Pakudha Kaccayana … This Ajita Kesakambalī … when that disciple has passed away and died he also declares his rebirth thus: “That one was reborn there, that one was reborn there.” This ascetic Gotama—the leader of an order, the leader of a group, the teacher of a group, the well known and famous spiritual guide considered holy by many people—declares the rebirth of a disciple who has passed away and died thus: “That one was reborn there, that one was reborn there.” But in the case of a disciple who was a person of the highest kind, a supreme person, one who had attained the supreme attainment, when that disciple has passed away and died he does not declare his rebirth thus: “That one was reborn there, that one was reborn there.” Rather, he declares of him: “He cut off craving, severed the fetter, and, by completely breaking through conceit, he has made an end to suffering.”’
“There was perplexity in me, Master Gotama, there was doubt: ‘How is the Dhamma of the ascetic Gotama to be understood?’”
“It is fitting for you to be perplexed, Vaccha, it is fitting for you to doubt. Doubt has arisen in you about a perplexing matter. I declare, Vaccha, rebirth for one with fuel, not for one without fuel. Just as a fire burns with fuel, but not without fuel, so, Vaccha, I declare rebirth for one with fuel, not for one without fuel.”
“Master Gotama, when a flame is flung by the wind and goes some distance, what does Master Gotama declare to be its fuel on that occasion?”
“When, Vaccha, a flame is flung by the wind and goes some distance, I declare that it is fuelled by the wind. For on that occasion the wind is its fuel.”
“And, Master Gotama, when a being has laid down this body but has not yet been reborn in another body, what does Master Gotama declare to be its fuel on that occasion?”
“When, Vaccha, a being has laid down this body but has not yet been reborn in another body, I declare that it is fuelled by craving. For on that occasion craving is its fuel.”
English translation by Bhikkhu Sujato
This was said by the Buddha, the Perfected One: that is what I heard.
“Mendicants, I do not see a single fetter, fettered by which people wander and transmigrate for a long time like the fetter of craving. Fettered by craving, people wander and transmigrate for a long time.”
The Buddha spoke this matter. On this it is said:
“Craving is a person’s partner
as they transmigrate on this long journey.
They go from this state to another,
but don’t escape transmigration.
Knowing this danger,
that craving is the cause of suffering—
rid of craving, free of grasping,
a mendicant would wander mindful.”
https://suttacentral.net/iti15/en/sujato
English translation by John D. Ireland
“Bhikkhus, I do not perceive any single fetter other than the fetter of craving by which beings are so tied and for so long a time run on and wander in saṁsāra. It is indeed through the fetter of craving that beings are tied and for a long time run on and wander in saṁsāra.”
A man companioned by craving
Wanders on this long journey;
He cannot go beyond saṁsāra
In this state of being or another.
Having understood the danger thus—
That craving is the origin of suffering—
A bhikkhu should wander mindfully,
Free from craving, without grasping.
English translation by Bhikkhu Sujato
“Mendicants, I do not see a single shroud, shrouded by which people wander and transmigrate for a long time like the shroud of ignorance. Shrouded by ignorance, people wander and transmigrate for a long time.”
The Buddha spoke this matter. On this it is said:
“There is no other thing
that shrouds people like ignorance.
Veiled by delusion,
they transmigrate day and night.
Those who have given up delusion,
shattering the mass of darkness,
wander no more,
the root is not found in them.”
https://suttacentral.net/iti14/en/sujato
English translation by John D. Ireland
“Bhikkhus, I do not perceive any single hindrance other than the hindrance of ignorance by which humankind is so obstructed and for so long a time runs on and wanders in saṁsāra. It is indeed through the hindrance of ignorance that humankind is obstructed and for a long time runs on and wanders in saṁsāra.”
No other single thing exists
Like the hindrance of delusion,
Which so obstructs humankind
And makes it wander on forever.
Those who have abandoned delusion,
Cleaving through this mass of darkness,
No longer roam and wander on;
In them the cause is found no more.
